LeCrae post leads to discussion of Mark Driscoll…My thoughts on Driscoll, Christian Conscience, Unity and More

Posted: March 11, 2008 by Rick Hogaboam in Ethics, Music Reviews, Theology
Tags: , , , ,

 

My initial post  (https://endued.wordpress.com/2008/03/07/music-review-of-lecraecalvinist-rapper-getting-crunk-referencing-john-owen-john-piper-and-morewow/) of a music review of rapper LeCrae has generated an interesting conversation centering around…Mark Driscoll. Anyhow, here is just some of that correspondence:

1.     Karie Says:
March 11, 2008 at 10:58 am

Watched the video again. Lecrae says about the guys he met ‘they looked like me they dressed like me, but there was something different about them, they looked like me, they dressed like me ye THEY DIDN’T HAVE FOUL MOUTHS.’ Mark Driscoll has a foul, vulgar mouth, and always has to icorporate something “funny” or sarcastic or iappropriate into his messages.
Here we have a rapper “those notorious for degrading women, foul mouthed, etc.” This guy says it was the appearance that was the same, but the MOUTH spoke differently. Maybe Mark Driscoll should have Lecrae for a role model instead of Chris Rock. If a cousin of mine, who is the prince of punk, should get saved, I would hope his lyrics and his actions on stage would demonstrate a change. And, by the way, where in the Bible or in church history, do we see godly men and women who lack character in their speech? I live in the SF Bay area, pagans and unbelievers, expect a higher standard from Christians, in their character and lifestyle,they are not impressed when we try to fit in with them. I really wish people would stop defending Mark Driscoll, he is intellegent, engaging, clever and a man pleaser, he can switch gears in a heart beat from poor little ex-emergent to Owens quoting calvinist, he is an actor and comedien, and people like you are making him a Christian rock star. If he is trying to reach the subcultures of America, why didn’t he start in Berkeley, Oakland, SF, Detroit, Chicago, DC, why are most of the churches white middle class soccer families, in white suburban towns? He can’t keep up the charade, he either has to come completely out of the ECM in every way, or continue to blend and compromise. God centered theology means that we please Christ and glorify him, not glorify ourselves and justify unacceptable behavior in His name. Show me the verses where He tolerates in any culure base and vulgar speech?

  1. rickhogaboam Says:
    March 11, 2008 at 1:07 pm

Karie,I very much appreciate and value your opinions. I myself do cringe at some of what Driscoll has said or written. I am not trying to make him a star. The fact is that he planted a church in Seattle and that he is reaching people who once viewed Christianity as some irrelevant sentimental religion for the weak…viewed Jesus as some hippie who would wear pink clothes and blow kisses to everyone. Those stereotypes are very real among emerging males and I am grateful that Driscoll has been able to articulate the Gospel and the person of Jesus in a raw and real fashion. His sermon series and recently released book, “Vintage Jesus”, has the acclaim of respected scholars who probably acknowledge the need for a “real” Jesus to be articulated to today’s emerging generations. As for base and vulgar speech, it is debatable whether Jesus, Paul, and others in fact used such. They did use intentional language to cause a reaction. In in oral culture, certain words were designed to invoke strong emotion. I think Driscoll is seeking a modern parallel to contextualize the original words (Hebrew/Greek) which were intended to cause a reaction from hearers. Where should the line be drawn and what words should be off limits is not a battle I will enter because I do see language as constantly shifting and even regionally textured. You have deemed that Driscoll has crossed that line and I don’t disagree with you. Your conscience on this matter is really the final say in your relationship with Christ and the type of church you would seek to fellowship with. My conscience hasn’t led me to draw the hard decisive conclusions you have drawn. Do I personally hold my breath once in awhile at the stuff from Driscoll? Yes. Has it led me to draw a hard conclusion on his ministry? No. That is simply where I am at right now.Thanks for your passion for the supremacy of Christ in all things!!! There are some who would even deem that listening to “Christian” rap is wrong. I have dealt with parents who have told me that they don’t like their kids listening to rap at all. There are some still who even think that all Christian artists who even express creativity in modern genres of music are compromising their faith. Just recently I had a phone conversation with a gentleman who swears that the King James Version of the Bible is the only perfectly inspired source for God’s word. The fact is that we Christians are guided in so many ways by our own conscience and the difficult challenge is to practice unity when believers hold different convictions of some of these things. The natural and normal tendency is to affiliate with like-minded folks and raise our banners based on certain convictions. We have “King James Only” churches, acapella only worship churches, etc. It is what it is. I am certain that Christ will obliterate these differences in the coming Kingdom and I long for that day when we will dwell in perfect unity!!!

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Comments
  1. Winton says:

    It shows that despite all his strengths he is, afterall, human. He does a good job being a counceling pastor, preaching pastor, husband, father, open and vulnerable about his faults to his church family, OH but look he has a foul mouth. I think I should blog about it. No doubt you can attest that for yourself that no matter how much good you may be doing, we all are still sinners. He actually makes fun of the people that make him out to be a superstar pastor. He also makes fun of bloggers and complainers.

    At least he is considerably more influential in a positive way than negative. He is an encouragement to lot of men. I am not defending his foul mouth, but at least he knows how to relate with the younger, extremely liberal generation (yes, just like us in SF) in Seattle despite his language; there are more of those kind than the uptight, homeschooled prudes up there.

  2. Lucas says:

    I agree with your views Rick. very well put.

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